That baby isn’t only yours

Nothing frustrates me more than to read posts from women and feminist about how they feel abortion rights are only a woman’s issue. They follow this logic up normally with the statement “It is my body! No one can tell me what to do!” Actually they can and have been since we were children. We get told what to do with our bodies in school, at work, and at home throughout our life. So why is it that suddenly women wish to take a stance by parading their right to kill a baby I wonder. Do notice the lack of a question mark. This is not a question.

I will never allow shitty husbands and fathers to TAKE my rights away from me. Just as I will NEVER allow women to either. I have said before that I will never feel “sorry” for what other men do. Yes I realize there are shitty fathers in the world, but that doesn’t mean I should give up my personal rights as a GOOD father because of them. Any woman that asks, nay demands that men give up their right in having a say about whether or not THEIR CHILD is born is a termagant of the worst order. Good fathers have as much say in their children’s lives as a woman, regardless who pushed that baby out.

I read a lot of abortion posts because WordPress is full of them. It is amazing how many girls are writing about their right to kill and they don’t even have a child. “Well when I do…” blah blah blah is what I read constantly. How about “when you do” I hope you have grown up and gained some maturity. Abortion isn’t a woman’s right, abortion isn’t a man’s right, abortion is murder. You don’t have to argue with me women over your right to it, abortion is ALL YOURS!

Jason Cushman

-Opinionated Man

411 thoughts on “That baby isn’t only yours

  1. Yup! It is their body but WTF that baby isn’t fully theirs. Yes yes ok after four kids I can understand having kids is harder than fawk!!! The process of pregnancy and all that jazz, but daddy has a choice too. To woman if it’s ypur body and you have such a right over DON’T GET PREGGERS IN THE FIRST PLACE opoouuu this topic triggers me . Dad always said, do the right thing. Sometimes downright thing isn’t always easy. DO THE RIGHT THING that’s all it’s about. Why do we live in a society where selfishness must over power doing What s rigbt 😒sorry Jason this bothers me too.

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  2. I say this all the time! Dads need a flipping say. I can’t understand why anyone would be ok with their child being ripped limb by limb out of the womb or being stabbed in the back of the neck and then say “my body my choice.” No, you just ended the life force out of someone else’s body, who had no say in the matter. I hope dads get the right to say that this can’t be done to their child.

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  3. We live in 2016…maybe people should be more careful and protect themselves better, communicate better and most abortions wouldn’t even be necessary in the first place…
    A woman who has been raped should be given the choice to abort. Period.
    All other women; keep your legs closed our make sure you can’t get pregnant.
    To men; It’s not only up to women to take care of birth-control and to communicate.

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  4. Yes! Yes! Yes!!!! Thank you for standing up and speaking TRUTH boldly!!!!! I couldn’t agree with you more! How can one say a BEATING HEART is not life?! How can one say that the man who created that life (it does take TWO) has no rights to parent HIS child that HE helped create? Makes me sick…

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  5. I wonder if any fathers have contested this in court yet? I’ve been outta the legal loop forever…it’s a tough, unpopular case but it needs to happen if it hasn’t yet. But then naturally if fathers gain the right contest an abortion, there will be some who try to legally force them. At least then we’d all be on the same legal playing ground…
    Except for baby who has now become a bargaining chip. Which is what happens to most babies anyway I guess…
    Fk this is depressing. I agree tho. E.

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  6. I definitely agree. let me share a heart breaking story with you all. about 3 years ago I felt like I was the happiest girl in the world. I had taken a pregnancy test and it came out positive. I felt like the happiest girl in the world. following my drs apt I kept on hearing ” we cant find aheart beat” “maybe next week” so I had to get blood drawn over and over again. long story short, I miscarried at 3month. I hadto than go for an “clean out” wich is, in other words, an abortion. At the office next to me as I’m sitting in major depression there are 2 girls talking about how its there 2nd and 3rd time aborting andas they sat there laughing I’m feeling as if my body is on fire. how can people do this with such happiness?

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  7. I agree with you completely! And why is it that, allow men are ignored when it comes to whether or not their babies will be aborted, they are obligated to pay child support even if they didn’t want the child? Double standard, anyone?

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  8. My two cents is that when this issue first came up during Roe vs Wade, most of the decision makers were men, and I do not think that was fair. My main concern was the woman or teen who was raped and forced to have a child or get an illegal abortion.

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          • What’s with your attitude on women? I saw the women are crazy post and now it seems you’re suggesting young women should be responsible? I agree but the same applies to men. Right?

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          • I didn’t notice the date, but it seemed sort of like sarcastic humor. No offense on my part. I do seriously believe there are far too many unwanted children and women who are forced to have them in the first place….just ends up in a bad way for all involved. Just my opinion, Jason.

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          • Maybe I misunderstood the first article. Teenage pregnancy sometimes comes from girls choosing to get pregnant for whatever reason. I agree that is totally irresponsible and they have no idea of the circumstances for the child. That’s why I approve of abortion being a choice.

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          • You missed the point of this article. This post is attacking women AND men that use abortion routinely to get rid of kids they don’t want. This isn’t talking about rape or even really teen pregnancy, although I have little sympathy for that still. Why do I have little sympathy? Because there are so many different forms of protection AND prevention in this day and age. So no, no I don’t feel badly for these women OR men that find themselves in these positions. I ALSO don’t feel a woman, who is with a man that is present and wants to support the child, should be able to terminate that baby on her own. My reasons are stated clearly here and are my beliefs. You can of course have your own. I won’t ever say the words “approve abortion” here. Probably because I was an abandoned child and I know what happens to us normally.

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          • I find it strange that having been an abandoned child that you are in favor of having more children like that created….but I sympathize with your situation and believe your point in it takes two to make the decision. But that would be the ideal situation, which is not always the case.

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          • Again, you miss the point. I am not in favor of having “more children like that created.” I am in favor of people haveing some damn responsbility in this world. And before you ask, I mean both men and women. Abortion is wrong, abandoning children is wrong, rape is wrong, women being pressured into decisions is also wrong, but the death of children… is never right. It is never the right answer. I could keep going, but I think you get my point by now. We simple disagree about the finer points and that is ok.

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          • I get so sick of “women would be forced to get illegal abortions.” Back before Roe v Wade 90% of all abortions were already preformed legally under the name DNC and others. These procedures where done in the doctors office safely.

            From my post about Abortion.
            “Even prior to the “abortion laws” 90% of all abortions were still performed by qualified doctors and not the back alley coat hanger butchers as you are lead to believe.
            http://www.abortionfacts.com/facts/12
            Abortion is not safer than full-term pregnancy and childbirth. Less than one in ten thousand pregnancies results in the mother’s death. [1] Government statistics indicate that the chances of death by abortion are even less. But while deaths from childbirth are accurately reported, many deaths by legal abortion are not. This completely skews the statistics. Furthermore, “abortion actually increases the chance of maternal death in later pregnancies.” [2] This means that some maternal deaths in full-term pregnancies are actually caused by earlier abortions, which creates a double inaccuracy.
            (1) ^ American Medical Association Encyclopedia of Medicine, ed. Charles B. Clayton (New York: Random House, 1989), 58.
            (2) ^ Reardon, Aborted Women, 113.
            It is 100% false to claim that no one knows when life begins, or that it begins only AFTER birth! It’s also dishonest to argue that abortion does not kill a human being.”

            It’s just a clump of cells!

            With it’sown DNA that will develop into a fully functional human. These babies have a heart beat at 8 weeks, feel pain and will move away from pain. There is evidence babies dream. And if clinical death is when the heart stops why would clinical life not be when the heart starts?

            The baby is not part of YOUR body as it has a totally unique genetic code all it’s own.
            The baby has it’s own unique blood type or at least it can.
            The baby can be a different gender.
            The baby can be a different ethnic back ground often misrepresented as or called “race”. (The human race is the race, everything else is a beautiful derivative or coloring shade.)
            It is possible for the baby to die on it’s own and the mother lives a normal life. It’s not an amputation of an appendage, the mother continues along physically normally. If it was her body wouldn’t she be physically not the same after the death of a baby inside the uterus?
            A baby will emit a chemical which weakens or disables the immune system from destroying the baby in the uterus. If the baby was merely “part” of the woman’s body this would NOT be necessary. And furthermore without it pregnancy would simply not be possible. The woman’s body would “reject” the foreign object.

            Christopher Hitchens who is a respected intellectual and an atheist wrote in his book.

            “As a materialist, I think it has been demonstrated that an embryo is a separate body and entity, and not merely (as some really did used to argue) a growth on or in the female body. There used to be feminists who would say that it was more like an appendix or even—this was seriously maintained—a tumor. That nonsense seems to have stopped… Embryology confirms morality. The words “unborn child,” even when used in a politicized manner, describe a material reality.”

            The argument that people will murder their babies outside the law is salacious and meant to distract from the real argument at hand. The fact it is NOT your body and you already made YOUR choice (When you choose to have sex protected or unprotected pregnancy is a possible outcome) should be enough. The argument about “back alley butchers” being the norm prior to abortion laws is false propaganda. So what argument is left?

            Logically there should remain no arguments other than emotional hysterics.

            What we know:

            We have scientific evidence and proof that life begins at conception. And it’s universally accepted and acknowledged in the biogenisis thoery.
            We have scientific evidence and proof the baby is NOT “part of the woman’s body”. Therefore My body, MY choice is invalid as an argument for abortion. It is most certainly not merely an extension of your body.
            We know abortion to save the mothers life or health has ALWAYS been legal and prior to Roe v. Wade 90% of all abortions were performed legally by licensed physicians.
            We know fewer than 1% of all abortions are to “save” the life of the mother and more than 95% are performed as a method of birth control. This leaves about 4% where a mothers health was at great risk.
            We know medically abortion is MORE risky than child birth to the mother.
            We know it affects the mental well being of any concerned father as much as the mental well being of the mother. But yet the father is excluded from any and all decisions under the false claim “MY body”.
            We know abortion ends or is intended to end the life of a baby in the uterus.
            We know it took two living cells to make that baby.
            We know humans can not appear from nothing. All life must be life from the start and until the end. Living cells growing as a human inside the mother continue to be human outside the mother.
            We know the idea of a unique life begins at conception is supported by atheists and theists alike.

            Logically the argument is not one at all. Science, medicine nor facts about past abortions agree with on demand abortion arguments.

            PS Roe V Wade wasn’t actually about a womans right to an abortion. It was about her right to privacy in medical decisions because before Roe v Wade if a woman was married her husband had a right to know everything even if they were separated. Further the woman involved in Roe V Wade had her baby is is now one of the stanchest pro-lifers around.

            As for working with these women. I have for more than a decade. I have never had a woman come back and say I wish I had the abortion who choose life. But I have had large numbers come back and wish they had chosen life. Especially after having a baby of their own! These are facts.

            A man should be involved and have a say!

            Liked by 1 person

  9. I love it when men open their mouth about abortion and women rights. It makes me feel so good in my body. Yes, please tell us all what we can and can not do, we will gladly give up our rights and go back to the stove.

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      • I don’t believe in killing a fetus at all. I couldn’t have children, so imagine how much it hurts me to read that some women can have children, but abort them. However, it is the woman’s body and the she is the one who should have the final say. I am tired of men trying to tell women what to do. I am tired of doctors telling patients who and when they are allowed to die and how much they will have to suffer. Get the bigger picture? My body, my decision. Your body, your decision. It’s as simple as that.

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        • I believe in the fundamental right of the woman to choose. It is her body. It’s her body that will undergo the physical stress of carrying the foetus. It’s her body that undergo changes as her body prepares for birth. She is the one who will experience hormonal changes that will play havoc with her emotions, and most of the time, she is the one who will be expected to raise the child, shelving or abandoning any other plans she had.

          Opinionated, you mention that people have been telling us what we can and can’t do with our bodies since we were children. In what context, and do you believe every said context is reasonable?

          Liked by 1 person

          • They tell us what to wear to school, what to cover in public, and when you can get piercings and tattoos. They tell you when you can use alcohol and smoke cigarettes. Those are ALL ways in which the government controls our bodies. I’m not sure why women don’t see that.

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          • Are any and all of these things ideas we can’t challenge? Plus, in respect of abortion, many of the rule makers tend to be men. Women are affected the most, yet men make the laws. So I’m not sure it’s women not getting it.

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          • Men made the laws because that is how history played out. I won’t sit here and dispute why that history played the way it did when we both know why. Even if those “rules” are made by men, we follow them. And that was what you asked me. Do we challenge those rules? Every day we do and I welcome such challenge. That is what makes America great. But what makes being a human great is the ability to have your own opinion and mine is that abortions used for convenience are a horrible action.

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          • Let’s flip this question on its head. If it were the man, expecting the woman t0o get an abortion, on the grounds he too had a part to play in making the baby and should have an equal say on what happens, what should the woman do? Submit to the man’s request/demand?

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          • Life matters. I’m a father of two and that should answer that. It is about the life for me and I even said that in the post. 🙂

            There is TONS the government does that I disagree with. Protecting life isn’t one of them though.

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  10. I agree with what you said. It isn’t just their right and it is murder. If it doesn’t just affect them or their body, how can it truly be just their choice? It affects that unborn baby’s life and the life of the father as well. Not to mention many other people in their family.

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  11. You are so right. Being in the mind of “empowered choices”, women don’t need to allow the penis inside, do we? We must be smart, loving and thoughtful in the specific situation and allow kindness to fill the hearts and smarter decisions may be made by everyone.

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  12. Pingback: I Killed HIS Baby | Truth in Palmyra

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  14. I completely agree with you, but, it took me a hard experience to get there. I need to post something about that one of these days. Your post reignited an inspiration I’ve had before. Now, to just muster up those balls to face the judgement.

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  15. Im pro choice but i disagree with a woman getting an abortion without fathers consent, but in theism, isnt it almost doing the unborn child a favor by guaranteeing them a place in heaven? Im assuming unborn children must be considered the epitome of innonence therefore they are never faced with temptation or sin. Is abortion eternalizing pure innocence in heaven? Is it the quick pass into heaven?

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    • Many consider it so, but we also understand the value in “life itself” which was a gift. We thus can’t ignore the fact that the gift of life is stolen in this case, even if it means that child will go to heaven. It is the exact same scenario for children that are killed by their parents for whatever reason. Of course we believe those innocent children go to the best place, but that doesn’t overshadow the fact that they were murdered.

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      • Ohh i see i just thought our lives were only like tryouts for our eternal life so i figured its taking away the burden of “trying out” i guess one could call it a mercy killing

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  16. Strong words well said.
    Having a child takes two people. Decisions need to at least take that fact into account. It’s very sad that some don’t care. I strongly believe a child has the right to live. Do people even stop to think about what the child might want? NO…….

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  17. You are right. Abortion is murder. Cold, first degree murder. I never could understand why a doctor, who supposedly wants to help, heal and take care of sick people and make them healthy, could willingly commit murder and say it was a good thing to do. Good post.

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  18. Throughout most of recorded history marriage was seen as a safeguard for children. Most of this debate is about people who aren’t really committed to each other having sex for recreation. It’s like children playing with fire and then crying like spoiled brats when their house burns down.

    There’s a sad level of selfish immaturity in demanding “rights” all the time instead of examining behaviors that risk such emotional and physical harm to oneself, your partner(s) and children.

    If men don’t deserve say then they shouldn’t have to pay child support either when the woman decides to keep a child.

    back to the institution of marriage–ideally it is not a covenant between two people promising to make each other happy–it is a structure for raising the next generation of people. In taking that responsibility seriously there are ups and downs, but studies show that married couples have the best sex and happiness levels.

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  19. Consider this, with the currant state of the law, for a woman consenting to sex is not consenting to motherhood. They have a choice, abortion, adoption or keep the child. For a man, the choices are, whatever the woman decides. A man could be prepared to rase his child with no help from the mother, but she can murder it at her whim. A man could have has discussions with a woman, that concluded in birth control being used as he did not want a child at that point in life. If pregnancy occurs, his choices are stay or pay. Stay with a woman that tricked him into fatherhood, or pay child support.

    Is it not strange that those who claim to want equality, never include the fathers reproductive rights ?

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  20. I believe that no relationship can survive an abortion (unless it’s ectopic). Just watch the Godfather Part II. It contains one of the rawest discussions of abortion in cinema. If a man can stand by and let his child be aborted without at least discussing the issue at hand, then he is not really committed to maintaining the relationship.

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  21. Pingback: So What Was My Point? | Oh No, Not Again!

  22. Reblogged this on Laissez Faire and commented:

    I’m Pro-Logic so I don’t get on these rides. There’s no “one answer”, only one person can hold the single trump, and nature just isn’t fair. It’s just not a win-win situation; it’s complex. If I want to save potential babies, I must first help the women. Just as if I want to end prostitution, I MUST uplift the women, support programs for their rehabilitation, skill building and education, prosecute their pimp, madams, and clients, and bring in the support of the public to see them as victims not perpetrators. If anyone wants to end abortion they first need to limit the need that drives it. We all have opinions and we should speak them. Go over to OM’s domain and opinionate all over the place 🙂

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  23. I have grown weary of all of the back and forth. Both sides of the argument always want to have the “one answer”. And there isn’t one. Not all killing is murder, but all killings ends life in some way–what value people place on different life varies as widely as the distance from the earth to the sun. That’s just the world of life and death we live in; that’s survival. Sometimes choosing to save a life ends another; sometimes doing nothing results in a life ending. Not all situations are win win. Just like those moral dilemma questions that make many people very uncomfortable when it comes to decisions of life and death. It’s not fair, it’s not happy, it’s not neat and tidy, it often even sucks, but in this issue only one person holds the only available trump because they are the one driving. Nature isn’t fair. People can argue about it until they are blue, but it is what it is. The arguments and go rounds are pointless.

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  24. On one hand I do agree that the father should have a say and everyone should be in agreement BEFORE one has sex; I did that with my partner and we were agreed on what should happen should an accident occur. On the other hand, if no one has brought up the topic, then by all means both partners should be taken into account, but if they are in disagreement the rights of the person putting their health and career under stress to carry a child is the one who gets to decide.

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          • Legally it is. I respect my partner enough to not take the relationship further if they would want to carry a child to term, either for adoption or not, but say I did become pregnant, despite all precautions, and he changed his mind and wanted it, and I didn’t. Ones rights have to supercede the others. It is both their child, but the pregnancy affects the woman more than the man. Legally that is recognized by the woman not needing permission from the man. This is not the Middle East. Like it or not, women here have rights individual from their partner’s.

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          • Sure legally. If that is good enough for you then be happy. As a man and a father that did care I think any woman that would terminate a baby when the father didn’t want to do so is wrong. And that is of course my non legal opinion. Lawyers have a way of finding wonderful loopholes even in things considered legally concrete.

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          • So forcing her to carry it because her partner wanted it is right? Doesn’t sound like you are a very good partner; actually, you sound like a very selfish person.
            And attitudes like yours are the reason lots of women will abort the child without telling the man that it existed.

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          • IAnd here I thought it was the men who “ran away” who were the bad guys. Every woman has talked about cowardly men not wanting to be the father they hoped. Here is a man wanting to be the father, wanting to “take responsibility” for his part in the baby and he is attacked for that.

            Honestly can a man do anything right ladies? They run away…bad men! They stand and stay….bad men! They want the child….bad men! They tell you to abort….bad men! Honestly no wonder men are so confused what a woman wants.

            OM you’re position is commendable. You are responsible and caring and that is the signs of a great father, husband and man. Try not to get too discouraged.

            For the men out there. I’m sorry for wishy washy feminists who refuse to acknowledge your rights at all. As I said before my partner is just that a partner, an equal in all things. If I was stupid enough to get pregnant I at least know my man would stick around. Sounds like OM would to.

            /smh

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          • The bad guys are the guys who try to force the women they claim to love to do things that they don’t want to do. I speak to the men in my life on what I’d want if I were to get pregnant and if their thoughts don’t mesh with mine I stop the relationship. I think men should have their say, but their rights don’t supercede that of the woman carrying the child’s.

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          • Nor do your rights supercede his and that is the entire point of his article. That baby is a person a responsibility. And he wants to live up to that responsability. He was have the reason you’re pregnant.

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          • So two people, neither’s rights supercede the others’, but either person getting their way will make the other miserable. If it comes down to it then, one has to look out for themselves. The baby is not a fully developed person yet, and if having a baby is a problem then it’s best to take care of said problem asap. I also believe that if a woman decides to have a child the man doesn’t want he shouldn’t be stuck to paying child support, the kid was her choice. If someone’s rights have to win out it needs to be the person who’s most affected by the pregnancy. Also, what motivation does she have to take care of herself re: no alcohol, prenatal meds, if she doesn’t even want it?

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          • The only person that has used the word forced is you. Learn to read responses before translating your interpretation. I said it is wrong for a woman to make a decision of the man is around and wants to be involved. If you think that is wrong I have nothing for you. Judging me as a father and husband is pretty pathetic considering you don’t know me, but judge away.

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          • By your response you saying that if the man is around and wants to support the child then she should keep it, and if she doesn’t want to then that is wrong of her, IS forcing her to give birth. What else would you call it? I suggest you look ‘implication’ up in the dictionary and get back to me.

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          • Not taking the man’s opinion or feelings into account is ‘wrong’. Forcing yourself to go through something you don’t want to because it is what he wants is not inherently ‘wrong’. From a legal and, as far as I can see, rational standpoint, abortion itself is not ‘wrong’.

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          • ‘Not correct or true, incorrect’, according to the OED. The law in most countries, including the USA, does not say abortion is ‘wrong’, so in terms of abortion either you are saying your opinion is above the law, or you are saying that right and wrong is completely subjective. I stand by my opinion that not taking your partner into consideration would be wrong, but your partner trying to force you to carry a child against your will would also be very wrong. In your opinion, it seems a woman doing what she feels is in her best interests is also wrong, so I suppose we are just at odds with each other; neither of us will make the other see our subjective opinions on what is reasonable or right.

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  25. Shitty Dad’s give good Dad’s a bad name, and to be honest, it’s unfair. My Dad was a shit, as was my stepdad, but I obviously understand there are some decent men out there who are good fathers!

    Personally, i don’t agree with terminations, but I understand SOME reasons for it. These mainly include rape, illness where taking the baby to term would put the mother in danger, or if the baby will be born with disabilities that will give them no quality of life.

    I’m not sure what my stance is when contraception fails – the couple have taken precautions which have failed. Personally, I don’t think I could terminate a pregnancy, but that’s me.

    What I don’t buy, is when girls/women use it as a form of contraception. The “oops I got pregnant, off to the clinic I go” girls make me angry. It’s not something to be proud of.

    Being in the profession I’m in, I try not to judge and instead be supportive if my support is needed.

    What I do agree with is that it should be a joint decision. I know someone who got pregnant and did have a termination but she had discussed it with her boyfriend and they made the decision together. I don’t believe the topic should be taken away from fathers, women would want them to be involved if they had the baby and yet take any power away from them.

    A very thought provoking post, but I don’t feel as though I can pass judgement on anyone who has had a termination as I’ve never been in their shoes.

    C.x

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  26. Pingback: Debating abortion! | aghostdancer

  27. Shitty fathers and husbands are killing good men every where. It’s a fucking travesty the shit men have to go through if their ex wants to be a bitter bitch, and using abortion has birth control should be a crime in itself.

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  28. I think it depends on the situation and on the physical state of both mother and child..
    Have you seen that case about the girl who lost her baby and was jailed for “abortion”? I don’t remember what country but yeah.

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  29. just because its been done in the past doesn’t mean it SHOULD be done, then or now. “Vous n’avez pas le droit, du faire ca!” Simple put, you have no right to tell me what to do, ever. period. my judgment is just as good and valid as your’s, especially if it comes to my life and my body.

    If someone can tell me I have to have a baby, then I should be able to tell someone else, you cannot have a child, and that is just stupid on both sides, we are all equal with our choices to make with respect to all that stuff, that’s why we are individuals and unique and can believe whatever we want.

    #FreedomSchools do a really good job at teaching children what is and what is not their decision to make. It is not your decision what i need to do with my body or if even need to bring a baby into this world. even if you were my husband, you wouldn’t have the right to turn me into a baby machine or take away my ability to say no, i don’t want to bring another child on to a planet that, inmo, is too stupid for me to even keep breathing (if it wasn’t for my child and my responsibility to raise her, i probably would go ahead and exercise my right to choose to insert back into to infinity’s petri dish and come out again in a galaxy far far away from this #fuqafukushimied stupid reality that is nuclearizing water so it doesn’t freeze anymore and wtf are we going to do for frozen margaritas?!)

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    • It takes two to tango. Don’t place that 100% on the woman. What you are saying is men all suck and will fuck anything that will let them so women have to be 100% responsible. Try having some of the blame on men for unwed pregnancy? Yeah after all he choose to put his dick in it hmmm?

      I do agree girls need to be taught they are in control and they have choices to not get pregnant. The first being don’t have sex. But BOYS also need to be taught some personal responsibility omg what a novel concept.

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  30. The only time that I believe abortion is the mother’s right is in the case that the pregnancy was a result of rape. I think in that instance, a woman has a right to choose. But for the young girls who decide not to take precautions or make their male partner wear a condom. That’s their own fault. In this day and age, contraception is so easily accessible, use it!

    Liked by 1 person

  31. Well, after readin’ your post and all the comments that have followed so far, I now remember why I always veer away from this topic. However, there have been a few asinine comments that I, as a man, a daddy, and a hillbilly just can’t ignore this time. I’m not gonna point out the comments I’m referrin’ to but by readin’ this comment I’m sure it will be easy to figure out.

    Abortion is murder. Plain and simple. It is no different than allowin’ the child to be born and then shoot it in the head, same difference.
    “If a man gets a woman pregnant” … Oh how I hate that sentence. The woman wouldn’t get pregnant if she were on birth control or just simply kept her legs together. The man is just as much at fault for not wearin’ protection.
    In the case a woman does get pregnant, regardless of simple precautions, then both the man and the woman instantly become responsible for the child.
    Abortion should never be a topic of discussion in a relationship. However, if it comes up for whatever reason, then just as the man and woman became responsible for the child when it was conceived they are both equally responsible for determining the fate of the child. Yes, I am fully aware of the fact that the woman is the one that has to deal with all of the “inconvenience” of carryin’ the baby for 9 months, all the body changes she will go through, the discomfort, pain, sickness, basically a complete altering of her body and life. What is almost never mentioned by anyone are the changes that happen to the man. No, they’re not physical changes but psychological changes and they are just as important as the changes in a womans body. A man, if he’s a man at all and takes responsibility for the child and is in the womans life, day in and day out, caring for her and everything else that goes along with bein’ a good mate and father, the yes, by all means he should have a say in the decision.

    And ….

    It matters not what we think, believe, or uphold. Opinions are like assholes, everybody has one and most of the time they are all different. In the end, it doesn’t matter what Jason or I or any other commenter takes the time to sit and type out. They are opinions, they are ours and as long as we have the freedom of speech they will be heard, by someone. In the final outcome it will be God who judges not you or I for we will also be judged. It just makes me feel a whole lot better to be on His side. And no, I do NOT want to debate religion with anyone, that is also MY belief.

    Liked by 1 person

  32. I think it would be a good idea for people seriously involved to discuss whether or not they want kids, it’s one of those life decisions that will create a lot of resentment if a couple isn’t on the same page, one hoping the other will change their mind about wanting/not wanting them.
    Sadly I’ve also read of abuse cases where someone tampers with birth control in hopes that a pregnancy will give them control over their partner, I’ve heard of both men and women doing this. It’s something that doesn’t really have easy answers, given all the possibilities of how two people can react to a pregnancy.

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  33. This is so sad, the way some women think it’s just their right. What one does to her body is her right, yes. But if it already involves another person, no, it is NOT her right. If she just doesn’t want a child, then carry the child and have him/her adopted, find him/her a home! What is a woman’s lost nine months compared to a human’s lost life?

    I am a feminist, I uphold women’s rights. But I am more of a human rights advocate. I understand if the issue involves a medical dilemma, which is not to say that it automatically means the baby should go — that is a very hard decision to make that I wish no one should go through. But I don’t see any other valid reason at all why a woman should kill a child.

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  34. I don’t have or want kids. I don’t care if people have abortions or not. I get annoyed when lawmakers are against it and then it comes out that they or their underage child had one. It’s like they are saying I can do it but you can’t. At least say you had one but regretted it and you don’t want others to make that mistake.

    Also, I hate when people say what if (insert famous good person here) was aborted. Like that would change someone’s mind.

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  35. I watched with amazement the poem presentation called “I Think She Was a She” in which the woman in one breath declares what an amazing mother she would have been for her child and in the next explains that she wasn’t mature enough to be ready to bring a child into the world.
    “I’d be an awesome blogger, the best blogger out there, I’d get more views than OM does… but I’m not up for that sort of thing.”
    Yeah, if I played basketball I’d dominate the NBA, win the cup singlehandedly, break Jordan’s records, and get MVP. If I played, but I don’t, because arthritis.
    Maybe that’s too strong. I’d ask the “she” in question what she thinks about it, but we can’t, can we?

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    • The real funny thing about that poem is this.

      I work in a womans crisis center. I’ve know women who had abortions and years or even a decade later return and say what a horrible mistake they made. Said it takes so long for them to realize that being a mother is indeed a choice. That choice started and ended the moment you opened your legs voluntarily. After that your “choice” in the matter is over you either are now a mother to be or you are not.

      Yes it is a “choice” in many cases. The rare cases like rape? Even then I’d encourage them to put the baby up for adoption. I even have channels to hook them up with parents to be who will pay every medical expense for the adoptive rights. There are choices and it’s ashamed few places teach people that.

      Give that “she” time and the choice she made will haunt her. My choice to abort or not even after my rape doesn’t haunt me. I love my sons smile, his kind heart and his awesome hugs. I’d have missed all that if I truly believe he was just a choice.

      Liked by 1 person

      • “That choice started and ended the moment you opened your legs voluntarily” this revelation says a lot about how you feel about women, not just about abortion.

        Liked by 1 person

        • Besides I am a woman. And the moment a woman decides to have unprotected sex is the moment she decided she is ok with being a mother. Because a baby is not a choice once it is concieved. So I agree the woman made a choice. She has all the power as to weather she gets pregnant. Except in the rare cases of rape or incest. But when she decides Yup I want to fuck this guy, I believe that is where her choices end if she gets pregnant. I can say as a woman I have chosen to have sex and always protected myself. Also made the guy wear a condom and even shut down a few who said I don’t wear those. Ok you won’t wear a condom have fun with your hand tonight. See ultimately the choice to have sex is all mine. How, when. Where, with who, and even with what protections.

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        • Michelle is my wife. I can assure you no one is more compassionate toward women than she is. She believes abortion is murder and if you take ten minutes to read her opinions on it on her blog you’ll see that. She is also saying when it comes to consensual sex the woman holds ALL the cards. She chooses the guy, the time, the place, it’s all her choices. She could say wrap that thing and if he says no then sorry find some other girl. She can just say nope sex ain’t happening now. If the guy then forces it that is rape. She holds ALL the power. Ultimately she choose to take the chance to get pregnant. So yes the minute she “opens her legs” she made HER choice.

          She choose just like the guy to engage in sex. Sex sometimes even under the best laid plans so to speak ends in pregnancy. So choose to take the risk then woman up to the consequences. What is wrong with empowering women like that? Unless you think she was innocent in choosing consensual and unprotected sex?

          Outside of “rape and incest” the “father” should have a choice too. BUT if the father chooses to have the baby mommies hands should be clean and never have to deal with the baby after birth. Have it and give it to the father. No child support, no nothing, you’re done. What is wrong with that? That is the OPs position on the subject. That he is half that choice to have sex and ultimately to choose life. The life that is half his.

          SO yes she is right to empower the woman. “The moment you choose to open your legs” ALL the power is hers. That my friend is empowering women.

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  36. This is something that I’ve always been conflicted over. While I believe wholeheartedly that abortion is murder, I also believe that women should be given the choice of what happens to them and their body. Yes, the men need to be included in the discussion, if they’re in the picture, and their views considered. But at the end of the day, it is her life, her body that will be irrevocably changed by the baby and the ultimate choice should lie with the mother. I agree that the father should not be left out of the decision, but no one else should be able to make that decision for the mother.

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          • It seems this article is a stone cast at the woman who would have and abortion without the consent of the biological father. Let it not appear that women are the lone culprit in this dilemma….I think it is fair to say there are more men than women with their jaw dropped seeking the nearest exit, applying pressure that is too much resistance for the woman and refusing to hold up their end of the “bargain”. To all you good father figures, I raise my glass, but too often the figurative shoe is on the other foot and enters the ugly abortion option. To the woman who says females make their choice when they choose to have sex, 40 lashes with a wet noodle , figuratively speaking of course.

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          • I am not so sure I can agree there “are more men then women seeking the nearest exit.” That would have to be proven to me to believe and it still wouldn’t change my perception as given in this post. Again, I won’t allow the shitty values of ANYINE, male or female, to dictate my life or what I may do in my life. Or what decisions are kept from me.

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          • Decisions should not be kept from anyone involved. We disagree, I think there are far more men than women who wish to abort a fetus that is unexpected and unfortunately unwanted. I am pro choice, when the male gives birth then he can have the final say. Thank you for the interesting article.

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        • Seems again you like the wrong kind of “man” so who’s fault is it for picking that man?? Yup another case of a woman who refuses to accept responsibility for her real choices.

          Try something knew. Know the guy well before letting him fuck you? I mean spend some time and make him wait, make him prove who he is. The losers will walk away for one reason of another in pretty short order.

          Wow how simple is that. And you just saved yourself from letting one loser spill his seed in you and maybe saved yourself aids in the process.

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  37. My biological father wanted me aborted, and I am so thankful my mom refused to do so.
    It takes 2 to tango, so to speak, so I totally agree that it is not “just between a woman and her doctor”
    I also think that this country needs to do so much more to support expectant moms, whatever the situation and that would go a long way in helping make abortion a less desirable option.
    America is the only 1st world country without mandatory paid maternity/paternity leave, in fact many non-first world countries have better maternity leave policies than America. When I was pregnant with my son I didn’t even qualify for unpaid maternity leave under current US law, which only mandates an employer gives unpaid leave to someone who has been employed with the company 12 months or longer. I started my job in August (the day after my honeymoon was my first day) and was due the following June.
    If the ACA is going to require contraceptives and/or abortions to be covered, the same should be true for prenatal care (which I have to pay for a higher level of coverage to not have maternity-related hospital stays count against my emergency hospital deductible) and related things, like prenatal vitamins (which if PlanB, which is an OTC is covered by insurance OTC prenatals should be as well) or severe morning sickness treatments (which I had to forgo because my insurance wouldn’t cover it)

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    • Just think if that choice was reversed. Your “father” has no rights to stop your mother who wants the abortion. If that reverse were the case we wouldn’t have the wonderful you here today. That is what OP is saying. A good daddy should be able to say NO I will take the baby and raise it just as much as the mother can now.

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  38. A very valid point you make there. Although abortion is murder sometimes it is best for the baby itself and for those around. It all comes down to each situation. However I agree with you completely, abortion should be a mutual decision, both of the parents should have equal say. After all isn’t that what the feminist movement is about? Equal rights for both men and women!

    Liked by 1 person

  39. My husband has said this to people on my FB all the time. It takes 2 to tango and if a chick wants no babies you have plenty of options. And most options can be combined with something like rubbers and other feminine based contraceptives. Gels and what not. A lot of women say it’s not fair to force a woman to have a baby so the father can raise the child. Oh well toots have the baby and sign your rights away.

    Love this post. I suppose I have a firmer opinion as a parent. Haha

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  40. I couldn’t agree more on this subject,although there are other reasons why women feel the need to have one,like being raped,I agree that men have a complete say in if they wanna raise a baby or not,it takes two to make one&when it comes to whether they keep the baby,it should take two to decide that.

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  41. While I agree with you that both a man and a woman should decide the fate of the baby I believe the right of legality should be just voted on by women. Until men that go around and sprinkle their seed willy-nilly and the consequences be damned or abandon a woman when she conceives and women are left with the physical, emotional and financial burden of a child, even if they are giving it up are required to pay half and contribute to the woman’s health and well being during the pregnancy then they have NO SAY WHATSOEVER in the legality of abortion. The woman should have to report who the father is and he should be bound by that even if it turns out that he isn’t the father she has to pay him back and seek relief from the real father. I know not all fathers play door bell ditch with women and if he’s supporting her over the seven or so months then he has time to decide if he wants his child or not.

    I realize this model is if abortion is made illegal. That said, I side with the president of my church that just because it’s legal doesn’t mean it’s moral. I currently can’t have children but I always believed in choice and my choice is life. We came down to this earth to make choices, preferably correct ones, and to enjoy the blessings or rue the consequences that those choices create. I would rather that all children around the world were born into happy, safe, loving families but the reality is they aren’t. We shouldn’t judge them anymore than I should judge the bastards that plant their seed and run. Habitual daddy machines should be snipped like a dog. My salvation is on my hands just as yours is. But until the world works on a fair and equal footing between men and women it has to be the woman’s choice because ultimately she’s the one putting her life on the line to have a baby. That said, seriously if you are having unprotected sex with a woman that you don’t know well enough to have an open dialogue as to what to do when the inevitable happens, should you really get a say. You bare half the responsibility for bringing an unplanned child into the world. Why aren’t you using protection? Why aren’t you making sure the wan is on contraception. All that is on the wens shoulders. MEN need to step up and make the choice to not become fathers, but then there is government telling you what you can and can’t do with your body.

    Liked by 1 person

      • True but we live in a world whereas are made to protect us from the worst men and women. I’m sure if you know about it you could throw an injunction at her and pay her to be the incubator if you knew but then again, that’s only if you knew. There really isn’t a simple answer to this. And for the record some good men and women should NEVER have kids, just sayin’.

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    • Who choose the guy? Who choose to let him fuck her? See the woman still made the choice to pick up a scumbag. Sorry but I have far better taste in my partner and they would know who I am and I they LONG before the subject of sex let alone the act of sex comes about.

      I am worth waiting for and any man not willing to put in the investment. CYA!

      Girls need to be taught self worth, empowered to know they are worth more than their vagina. teach them early and at home how valuable they are. Tech them not to be promiscuous. Why? Because you are worth the time to get to know as a person.

      Solves much of the problem because men like you described won’t put in the time. They want the quick and easy girl. Sorry I’m not one, move along little boy I want a man!

      Liked by 1 person

      • If the girls come form a Rockwellian home I would agree with you. But how many are sexually abused by fathers, brothers, grandfathers, uncles and even the women folk? How many of them have been told they’re stupid and useless by their parents and teachers at an early age? Until we can find a fail proof way to raise, respect, and honor the feminine worth either via the government or ecumenically girls will always be used as fodder for the cowardly to feel powerful. I day this from a position of one that was called names by my mother, rolly-polley by my father, and u believed molested by one brother who was being systematically raped by his father (not my father) and his brother. I’ve worked very hard, and am sill working towards self worth because I’ve seen how wonderful it is to be a daughter of a Heavenly Father who loves me; and I love Him. The girls who don’t learn this might never find their try worth and potential. On the flip side boys need to learn to treat all girls and women like the precious and rare beings that they are by the same spirit if love and grace. It’s not just the girls that need to know their worth but the boys as well. I just don’t know how to wipe the slate clean and reverse the victimization of the parents so to end the victimization of their children.

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  42. every child born is a soul full of love, a soul ready with God filled loving potential, every child is programmed to accept love, when we stop loving children ,God well….

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  43. I am pro choice for the simple reason that abortion should be legal (versus illegal) from a harm reduction model. It is better to have a safe alternative than backroom slaughter houses where women die from infection, etc…from illegal abortions. Abortion should not be a form of birth control (come on ladies and men – there are many, many BC options out there). I also support women having the right to and access to birth control. It’s amazing to me that women had to fight for 30+ years to have BC covered under health insurance but Viagra was covered for men automatically. This is where I have a problem. Pro Choice does NOT mean ‘pro-abortion’. Let me repeat. Pro Choice does NOT mean pro-abortion. Pro Choice means women have the right and access to safe, affordable reproductive health care including birth control options. If the government and insurance companies want to cover medication so that men can have MORE sex while not allowing women coverage for birth control to PREVENT unwanted pregnancies – we have a major problem.

    Liked by 3 people

    • Pro choice means allowing abortion to happen, supporting the killing of babies, and in the eyes of many that is an equal evil. Forms of birth control have been around since women learned what plant to use, just like men learned what root to eat for an early form of Viagra. I don’t see time period as a relevant point in why I should support either abortion or a woman’s “right” to kill a child.

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      • There are many scenarios where a baby (third term) living in the womb will dies before birth, has birth defects that will not allow it to live outside of the womb (die at birth or within hours), pregnancies due to rape, incest, etc… It is a difficult choice to make no matter the circumstance. Sex, abortion, libido enhancing drugs have all been around since mankind. Life is not black and white. Men walk away from babies all the time (and always have) – why are women being demonized for this choice? Is it murder when a man wears a condom and prevents his sperm from the possibility of conception? Probably.

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    • My BC was covered under BC/BS long before viagra was available. False statement moving on.

      You do not have a right to BC, you have an option but that is another matter altogether right vs choice. Rights are free speech, owning guns, ect. Choices are borth control, having sex, ect..

      One is a right the other a choice.

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  44. I had to attend a special school for pregant teens. One of the girls that was in the same school had been raped. She decided to keep the baby. Believe me she was harassed by everybody, some of them thought she should get an abortion and others thought she should put it up for adoption.

    Her response was always the same, this is my child and how it was conceived is not his or her fault. She did have a finance at the time and he was the only that stood with her in support. They were married and he did claim the baby as his.

    I don’t know what happened afterwards because I lost track of them but I know she made the right choice for her and had a good man to back her up.

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      • Then you know it’s not a baby. You know it is female, as a tail, kinda more like a lizard at this point.

        You as a male have no role, no rights, nothing to say about this developing creature.

        Not your body, not your call. Ever.

        This is the creepy argument we expect from those “Men’s Rights Groups.”

        I’m sorry – 40% of us get all the women. I apologize. That does not legitimize anger from the other side.

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  45. I had an abortion. I was actually forced into it, but there would’ve been no way I could have taken care of the baby at that time, anyway. So, I didn’t argue too much. I really had no feelings about it, whatsoever, until I was on the table with my legs in stirrups and they turned on the vacuum. It was very loud and when they inserted it…..I heard my baby being killed and sucked out of me and I knew I was a murderer.

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    • haha, I just noticed the “thumbs down” on my comment. Wow….judge much, commenter? Have you walked in my shoes? Do you know my life? Was your life like mine, such that you have enough experience to be in a position to judge me? Who crowned you judge? And, from where exactly does that crown originate? You have no awful skeletons? Hmmmm…..

      Liked by 1 person

      • Beautiful lady… HOW MUCH courage it takes for you to write what you wrote here… you are a light dear. As much as you have felt is what you want others to know. I respect that so much! We ALL have things that happen – or that we do – and if we can take those things to help someone else not be FORCED to feel the same thing we had to… then we are stronger and wiser. And when we know better – we do better!
        Stupid ASSES who can judge your heart. They cannot…they will be judged MORE harshly for such things 😉
        Bless you.

        Liked by 2 people

  46. I don’t agree totally with you Jason, but a long way.
    One thing is that you might be a good father, we need more of those good faters in our world. Another thing is that we all have our own life experiences, which also make us think in different ways.

    What do you think, when you read this?
    A mother and a father have 2 kids at 3 and 6 years. The mother gets pregnant again and the father is telling the other two kids, that we are going to have a baby in our family.
    Less than one month later he demands an abortion with very few choices for the mother. Either she can live with two kids and a father in the house or be a single mother with 3 kids. No. 2 kids was often very sick and needed special school etc. later in life.
    This is a true story Jason and not fun to go through, so please don’t judge the mother. Those parents did split few years later.

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    • In that situation, where a shitty father is present, the law should be taken into account. That still would not justify an abortion, but it would justify a court order, child payments, and freedom from an obvious asshole.

      Liked by 2 people

  47. That annoys the hell out me. Nobody considers the father in the mix. A father should be able to decide if his unborn baby gets murdered. I don’t believe in abortion but even if I did I would still ask the father. It’s not just my child it’s also his!

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  48. (PLEASE NOTE: I am not addressing victims of sexual assault and the small % of women who get pregnant on birth control with this comment.) Well, my sisters, with you feeling so strongly about your bodies, how about making sure you don’t get pregnant in the first place. Good god, it’s 2014. Use birth control without fail OR keep your legs closed. It isn’t that difficult. Sex can be pretty awesome, but I don’t know anyone who has died from not having it. If you truly cared about your bodies the way you claim to, you wouldn’t risk an unwanted pregnancy and all the havoc it puts your body through, much less the terrible prospect of ending an innocent life that didn’t ask to be conceived. Fathers who want their unborn children but see them aborted instead is a horrendous thing. Abortion is not birth control, so stop using it as if it is. Be responsible. Do the right thing. Stop getting pregnant in the first place, until you’re ready. JMHO

    Liked by 1 person

  49. I would agree, but with some notes:
    1. I don;t believe in abortion “on demand” (in some cases I would allow it, but following serious medical and psychological research and support) – although I am far away from any religion, from simple ethics perspective – it is murder. Does not matter how You present the fact – it is. This child is a living being, just like poor dogs You will repost on FB for adoption. If You think You are rightful to do abortion – why not to kill 5, 10, 15 YO kids, as they are still dependent on parents?
    2. The decision should be from BOTH parents if possible. If they disagree – the more psychological support is needed. But if for any case there are medical reasons, and man disagree regardless of what happens to women – then it is up to HER. I can imagine some reasons to make such decision, but on the other hand… There is a story about Polish voleyball player – chosing her child over life: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agata_Mr%C3%B3z-Olszewska – heroism? Don’t think so – just a choice – supported by her husband.

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  50. When it comes to children I can’t imagine making a decision without my husband by my side. He attended every OB appointment with both my kids and I wouldn’t have it any other way. It takes two to tango, and unless it is an extreme case (eg rape), it should remain the decision of both. I just don’t understand the whole “men have no say” regime.

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  51. You make some very good points. Controversial, naturally. At the end of the day, no matter what anyone says, the ultimate decision lies with the women carrying the baby, and shouts of “murder”, are irrelevant and subjective. If a woman decides to abort, there is simply nothing anyone can do.

    Liked by 1 person

      • as I said, you make some good points, but it is not up to the courts or a judge, if one lives in a free country. The father is a different matter. The couple must discuss this, it concerns ONLY them, and the final decision will always be the Women’s. Whether we like it, or not. There was a time when the Catholic church would not allow birth control. They made people feel guilty about it, for the same reasons.

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          • No problem. It is a cyclical argument and people will never agree. We all have different values. I’m not saying what is right or wrong. I believe it’s out of my hands. Thanks OM.

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  52. I wish people would focus on being responsible and getting suitable birth control as opposed to using abortion as an alternative. Personally, I know that I don’t want kids, and I married a man who shared the same opinion. Aside from not wanting them a pregnancy will kill me. So I appreciate apportion as a medical emergency. I find that the controversy is a bit idiotic though. Murder is murder at the end of the day but there are so many things worse than death. People need to make the choices that are necessary.

    Liked by 1 person

  53. I think it’s very sad when a mother has an abortion. And am glad i’ve never been in a situation where i felt i had to make that choice.

    Women have abortions for a variety of reasons – birth defects in the feotus, because they’re single and society would not understand, they don’t have the means to support a child on their own, they don’t have the means to look after themselves enough during the pregnancy – that the baby would be safe and healthy (a very common reason for abortion here), their families would sever contact with them if they had a baby outside marriage (in India highly likely) and also, because they simply do not want to have a baby.

    I disagree with you, because I think it’s a choice. If a mother makes that choice and then regrets it….she still had the freedom, at the time, to make a hard choice she thought was right.

    I don’t think abortion is a happy decision for someone to have to make, but i would not call them a murderer’s.

    I do however, agree with you that father’s too have rights to their unborn child – to have the opportunity to make that choice.

    Liked by 1 person

      • Yes i think both parents should be involved in a choice to have an abortion.

        The thing is, with freedom of choice comes responsibility. And a man choosing to have a baby when the baby’s mother does not wish for it, needs to be really really committed to being there for his child and the mother of his child.

        I know married women who had a second child because of pressure from their husbands and in-laws, who have said to me that they love both their children, but resent the second one more when the going gets hard, and say they wish they did not feel that way, but they do. They’re harsher with their second child, and that child also gives more trouble.

        They say it’s easier, when the father shares the responsibility of disciplining them, but this does not happen, because he is comes home from work too late to do anything but have dinner and relax with the kids.

        i would think though, that most mother’s would love their child unconditionally, irrespective of whose choice it was to have them, simply because the joy of seeing their baby would override all that came before.

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          • Sometimes. So when a woman doesn’t want to have a baby she’s conceived, but the father does and they chose to have the baby, it’s so important that the father plays an important role in the child’s life, even more than usual.
            With choice comes responsibility. Children need just one person in the world to love them unconditionally – they’re lucky, when they get 2 people who do, but i think even one is enough

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  54. Wow, I love how you said everything here with raw passion. I totally agree 100%. In my opinion, abortion should not even be mentioned in a relationship AT ALL.

    This is a baby they’re talking about, not a damn handbag that they can just choose not to have. I really hate when people post stupid things like this. They give women everywhere a bad name.

    And maybe they need to watch a quick Sex Ed video if they really believe men should have no say in this particular issue…

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  55. OM, I agree with you 100%

    Any time that any one has sex there is a chance of pregnancy…even on birth control there is still a chance to create another human being.

    It’s time that we as grown people begin to take responsibility for our own actions.

    This is no ‘he said, she said’ crap. I had an abortion 22 years ago. I am ashamed. I thought it would all be fine afterwards. WRONG! If you have a conscious at all, you can’t handle the grief that comes after an abortion. The nightmares, the guilt, the shame.

    When it really became hard was seven years later when I gave birth to my daughter. To hold her in my arms and for the first time in my life feel the love a mother has for her child was unbearable. I had murdered my first child and at that moment all reality of my actions shattered within me. If I had only known.

    For those that wonder how a child can survive being without a father with a young mom? What kind of life will they have? What are their chances? Their life will be so hard.

    Well, I was born to a poor, single mom and I was fatherless. I did have a hard time growing up but I survived. I am strong! Now I am a productive member of our society, have been in a long marriage to only one man, and I am a damn good mother to my children.

    Was I not worth my mothers time? Should I have been murdered instead?

    Liked by 3 people

  56. I’m not going to argue with you on fathers tights in abortion…maybe another date, as I think this is a complex issue that might vary with stage of pregnancy.

    I just wanted to point out that the quirky girl pingback site looks like a propaganda site set-up. I just noticed you had also commented there. Assuming it’s not yours, I’d be curious on your opinion.

    Like

    • In this context I use “argue” just in the sense of debate or discuss.

      Do you, btw, mean “Should be viewed as a societal issue, not women’s rights”? I ask because it looks like this issue falls into both categories as currently discussed and these words used by the majority in the US (limiting the discussion here since we both live here).

      Of course, I’m not sure what you yourself mean either by “rights” or “societal issue” so I’ll take a stab at some definitions and, if you are open to discussing, see if we agree. “Societal issues” I might take as referring to general welfare (maximized happiness) of the population, and “rights” as those generalized rules regarding what is allotted a person in society in order to reach a better quality for society.

      Or did you mean something different, such as that the issue is defined by each society and not by an idea of universal rights? I’m just not sure as people use these words in a lot of different ways.

      Like

      • I mean that according to where you live you have all rights and privileges to your body besides those of killing a human being or a “fetus” as some like to call them. The right to abortion is upheld by the government of the land that you live in and I thankfully live in a land where half the people still believe it is wrong. That half understand that regardless what you call it, that is a the essence of a human being. Whether there is a soul is debatable at what point of life you terminate, but as an Eastern Orthodox Christian I believe that killing a fetus is wrong. I use the term “wrong” to justify why I feel this way. It “feels” wrong” to me. Not evil, sin, whatever other words you hear those are words of others. My opinion is my own and that is that abortion is wrong. Now, I have also said I don’t think a person should have to live with a “mistake” but that if you wait till after 6 weeks of a fetus being grown you are irresponsible at that point in my eyes. I am adopted and I know my story, I know that there could have been a huge chance that a Korean in Pusan was terminated. That affects my opinion and is a large factor in why I am so strong willed against what I see as wrong. I just wanted to give you a clearer answer since you actually seem to care and your question left me to believe you wanted to differentiate between whether my opinion was news based or personal. It is personal.

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    • Thank you for explaining your terms and ethical foundations.

      To clarify, when you say “killing a fetus is wrong” are you specifically referring to the developmental stage between 8 weeks and birth (the biological definition) or are you using it in a more generic sense referring to after conception? This is just unclear from your discussion about waiting 6 weeks.

      I also wanted to note that many women do not have regular periods and may not know they are pregnant for more than 6 weeks. A teenager is also very likely to put of the confrontation with parents longer than that as this can be extremely traumatic. I am by no means arguing there shouldn’t be cut-offs, just making sure the reasons that 6 weeks of development (embryonic) is quite early in many cases.

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      • It is about the point of conception to me, but I will “not raise hell” about 6 weeks. It is simply about stopping a heart to me. That should be simple enough in response I think right?

        Like

    • Ok, although I think we have slightly different ethical foundations (you are an Eastern Orthodox Christian and I am, roughly, a pan-experientialist rule utilitarian) it looks like we agree that a cut-off line should be somewhere between a few weeks after conception yet before birth. I would be interested at some point in discussing your choice of a heart beat for the cut off (I use neural complexity, and a later date) but I don’t want to lose track of my original interest in discussing this, which is thinking about the mans role.

      1. Would it be a fair assessment of your position that the woman should have full say up until your cut-off point of 6 weeks?

      2. After that point (or before, depending on #1) do you think it is between the mother and the father, or that it is an issue for society to decide?

      Like

    • So if a woman if 4 weeks past conception and wants to have the baby, but the father wants her to have an abortion, what do you think the law should say?

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      • I DO NOT BELIEVE IN ABORTION. I just wanted that clear. My answer would be NO ABORTION. Look, I showed that I “understand” why some circumstances happen… but I won’t start waving an abortion flag around and won’t sit here and think of hypotheticals either of when it is acceptable and when it is not. Abortion is awful and no one should have one. If it HAS TO HAPPEN, let it be for rape, incest, or danger to the mother. Those cases are SO SMALL compared to the routine abortions done daily that it wouldn’t matter if I looked the other way at that small percent. Why? Because there is STILL the greater percentage that use abortion for the wrong reasons, because they just don’t want a kid or the responsbility, that making hypotheticals to “excuse” such behavior is distasteful in the highest sense to me.

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    • I think your discussion about father’s rights, then, which I actually thought interesting, is really a red herring. You think abortion is wrong, period, and the father’s rights issue isn’t really a significant one in your view. Thanks for the clarification.

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      • Um what? Of course it is. Fathers should have equal rights. I said that already. I am addressing your earlier comment on trying to get me to say “yes” to an abortion of 4 weeks. I won’t ever say that.

        Like

    • You wrote:

      “Any woman that asks, nay demands that men give up their right in having a say about whether or not THEIR CHILD is born is a termagant of the worst order. ”

      You specifically said “whether or not THEIR CHILD is born”…you did not make any statement saying that this was a one sided statement. If the father has a say in “yes” I would read from this that he also has a say in “no”. What would be the distinction?

      You also specified that waiting until after 6 weeks was irresponsible. If you didn’t think there was a distinction, why did you write this?

      I am genuinely just confused at this point. It looks like you are now saying that you just oppose all abortion after conception – I have no idea what your references to father’s rights and 6 weeks had to do with anything. I have clearly misunderstood your position, but I feel you haven’t represented it very clearly.

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      • Actually I was very clear. You just didn’t read it clearly. I showed you my belief, I showed you how I have “adapted” my beliefs some and am less hard edged about it (i.e. accepting that some abortions will happen prior to 6 weeks, but what I have been VERY clear on, which you still aren’t getting, is that I am 100% against abortion. The reason I took the time to explain other “circumstances” is because no commenter has failed to ask the “secondary and third questions” that you are. I was trying to save time, but apparently we have missed each other completely. Oh well, life goes on. Thanks for giving it a read though.

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    • I just can’t tell whether you genuinely don’t realize how vague and hollow sentences like “I accept hat abortions occur” and “I do not believe in abortion” (I removed your all caps) really are. You had better emotionally accept that war and starving children happen, too, but that is not a position. What the heck does this mean? And in light of that, you do not “believe in” abortions? What…don’t believe they happen, think they are morally wrong, think they should be outlawed?

      If you are doing this accidentally it’s too much work to clear up and if it is intentional, you’re not a very desirable conversationalist. I am trying to be polite here, but the truth is my reading comprehension skills have never scored below the top 1/2 of 1% … so while I may occasionally slip, I know a coherent and solid position when I see it….and sorry, but I’m not seeing it.

      I think we’ve exhausted this topic andI know you aren’t going to readily accept what I’ve said, but I would urge you to mull over the possibility that you are, intentionally or not, using vague sentences that can’t be pinned down in order to avoid having to think to hard. Your statement that you won’t engage in hypotheticals is frankly indicative of plain intellectual laziness. There is no more straight forward way to focus ideas which is why this has been a standard Socratic conversational technique for thousands of years.

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      • Oh boy… you just quoted intelligence to me? Sigh… ok you win. You are smarter than me.

        BTW: I would know a thing or two about starving children. I was found on a street at age 3 and placed in a shitty orphange in Busan, SK the same year. Know anything about that?

        Like

  57. Pingback: Pro-Life | Punk Rock Pericaliya

  58. I am glad we agree. 🙂

    To all those who advocate abortion citing the minuscule percentage of medical complications: You are right. But only so much.

    Abortion, to be, is a sin. There’s an unborn baby. There’s a life you are killing. And you go about claiming that you have the right to kill that life? You suck big time.

    Like

    • My friend was one of those small proportion who was faced with a choice at her twenty week scan, she and her partner literally had 24 hours to make the hardest most heartbreaking decision that anyone I know has ever had to make, it was not a sin and the only sinners are the ones that put themselves in the place of their God and play judge. This was a baby that was wanted but tragically could not be to carry on until the baby died naturally inside her would have risked her life, until you have sat and held someone who has gone through that you have no right to judge them. I do not agree with abortion as contraception but no one has the right to determine another should go through the most horrendous time in their lives and be judged for it.

      Liked by 4 people

  59. That is a powerful opinion. As you are a man and you state abortion is murder, I am guessing you have never been in a situation where you had to decide to abort and I assume you have never been pregnant.
    You talk about good fathers and bad fathers. How should we define the good and the bad. It’s arbitrary since we live in freedom which affords us free will and the ability to choose individually good from bad.
    Abortion should not be a political issue, because terminating any pregnancy is a medical issue.
    A private medical issue between a woman and her doctor.
    Thank god for that. Before abortion was legal, women were dying from back ally abortions and kitchen table botch jobs. Leaving families without mothers, wives, sisters and daughters.
    Reasons for abortion are endless, individual and personal.
    Until anyone is actually in a position to have to choose, they don’t have a clue what it is like.
    I have always been pro choice.
    Many people I know that were against abortion ended up in the shoes of the chooser. In one case the situation was grave for the fetus and the health of the mother who was married with one child already, was high risk. It came down to this. Abort the fetus, the mother will live. Don’t terminate the pregnancy, the mother will die, if the fetus makes it to term, it will be either stillborn or die after one breath.
    What would you choose?

    Like

    • Women choose to have abortions everyday as a form of birth control. Your situations you speak of are small in comparison. Thanks for the opinion, but I can tell we will always disagree because of statements like “Abortion should not be a political issue, because terminating any pregnancy is a medical issue.” Yea I disagree with that. It is a political since murder is decided by the courts. I am happy this country doesn’t agree with you. As for “A private medical issue between a woman and her doctor.” I believe my post answered this already. You are correct, oddly enough I have never been pregnant. I also was adopted and could have easily been aborted, considering my country of origin. You present conditions that are a small percentage in comparison to the routine abortions done by women around the world for convience. I recognize there are “hard situations” and in those I hope the woman does the right thing. But that doesn’t excuse the daily abortions done because women “just don’t want it.” Thanks for your time and for your comment.

      Like

    • Choose, choose, choose… Choices come with consequences. If you don’t want to deal with the consequences then don’t make the choice in the first place. An abortion is not a moral means of dealing with the consequences of the choice to have sex.

      Like

  60. I agree and disagree and will leave it at that because I know how heated I can get very quickly on this subject. We all have a right to our opinions 🙂

    Liked by 1 person

  61. I agree and disagree with this post. Yes, men helped create the child and therefore should have a right to decide if they want their child. But, the way I see it, men can walk out on a pregnant woman at any time. They don’t have to stick around. The woman on the other hand, is stuck with that child whether she has the means to take care of it or not. No matter the circumstance- whether it’s rape or a mistake- a mother without the means to raise a child or a partner to offer help is going to give that child a rather shitty life, and does an unborn baby really deserve that?

    Liked by 2 people

      • I do see your point, but I still disagree. I believe that human population is out of control, too many children are being born that cannot be taken care of. Abortion is an effective means of population control. I know that sounds cruel, but just look at the Malthusian theory. Just because it hasn’t happened yet doesn’t mean it’s impossible.

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        • Abortion is an effective means of population control…. how about humans grow brains instead and use birth control? That statement… yea I disagree full with you as well. That is the problem with society today, too many people want to find an excuse. It is sad.

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  62. Background: I am female, 26, never had an abortion, been in many relationships and have had sex with multiple people. That being said I do not want kids(for health, personal, societal reasons). I have been on birth control(pills, nexplanon), have attempted abstinence, condoms…there are tons of options before abortions. Abortions should not be considered an option and neither in my opinion is morning after pill- unless in cases of rape. We live in a society where a person makes a mistake – they are given a way out and we as a country fund the way out. Your choices have consequences and an unborn life should not bear the weight of your choices so my thing is teach young(13 and up the consequences of sex, don’t scare – explain and let them ask and listen to them, don’t banish them to their room).

    Before I get off topic any more – let me get back to the father having a say. It’s a tough situation because many boys ages 15 to 18(similar to girls of that age) do not have the maturity to stand by and commit to a baby so that mixed with a young girl’s fear creates the desire for an abortion. Ultimately the woman has to go through 7 plus months of carrying the child which is difficult and if they are not keeping the baby that is a very hard process to accept. Then there is the risk to the woman – so as much as I want to say the father has a right to say he wants to keep the baby I can see the side of “woman’s body”. However if the father wants to sign a full custody form, pay for the medical bills, the woman agrees to the risks, and the father says they are solely responsible for the child I believe that should be an option. Similar to an adoption at birth by the father. I don’t know if this is already occuring however. I do however believe that abortion is morally wrong and would never have one myself.

    Liked by 1 person

  63. I agree that abortion is the right of no one. It is murder. Also, why is it that the woman’s choice is all that matters? A man had a part in the conception as well. It’s just as much his baby as it is hers. They should both have an equal say. If I were a man, especially one who wanted a baby, I would be furious if I found out that my girlfriend/wife killed it. If you don’t want the baby, let the man raise it. Better yet, use protection. That’s just common sense.

    Liked by 1 person

  64. Jason,

    I have two boys, 17 & 14. I tell them this all the time! I have raised them to be strong men-ish, however, it is a very crucial point that they understand that if they chose to have sex and get the girl prego, they will not have a say in her not keeping the baby or keeping the baby for that matter. Obviously it is the woman’s body but it is the baby of both, not just hers.

    Great topic, love the strong conviction you show!

    Liked by 2 people

  65. I agree with the points you make, but I do want to ask a question. If doctors say that a baby will be born with heart defects, will probably suffer its entire life, and will have a neurological disorder, would it be crueler to let the baby live and suffer, and crueler to have the baby never see life?

    Like

    • I personally do not agree with abortion even in these case because doctors are wrong all the time. I had at least 8 different doctors tell me my son was going to die, (he was born at 23 weeks) and that he would be severely mentally disabled if he did live, to the point of not being able to walk or talk. They tried to get me to turn his life support off, so that I could hold my baby for the first time as he passed away, I said NO. My son is 2 1/2 now and in perfect health. Doctors are wrong all the time. Also when I was pregnant with my 4 year old they said he would be born with down syndrome and open neural tube defect, he was born without either condition.

      Liked by 4 people

  66. Yes yes yes, finally some other people who think abortion is not only wrong but a complete injustice to the father. Also all of these pro choice people keep saying, without abortion there would be millions of unwanted babies, okay well instead of keeping abortion legal, wouldnt it be better to inforce birth control shots on women, at least until they want to conceive, certainly a little prick in the arm is much better than the murder of another human being. Great post.

    Liked by 2 people

    • Interesting idea with the birth control shots, but the American population is in an uproar over general health coverage already, so I feel like there would certainly be a significant portion of the women population that would object to being made to take those shots. And then what about the logistics of it? Who would pay for these women to get the shots?
      This issue isn’t going to be solved with a simple suggestion.

      Liked by 1 person

      • Well if a woman rejects getting the shot, thats fine but if she gets pregbant no abortion. And think about how many billions of dollars are spent each year for women who receive medicaid due to an unplanned pregnancy. Use that money.

        Liked by 1 person

        • Your plan still doesn’t fix the single mothers who are currently on Medicaid. So upon implementation, we would still need to find the funds to begin this effort before we can start pulling from Medicaid (and we could only do this if there was a correlation between free birth control shots and unplanned pregnancies).
          Rather than debate with me, have you thought about contacting your congressman?

          Liked by 1 person

          • You prod her with a question and when she responds in kind you tell her “why don’t you go talk to a congressman?” Really? How lame is that? Come up with a new catch phrase as well…

            Like

          • I made my comment. You made a post that was pro-life and I acknowledged it. I have no problem with your stance (because it is your opinion) and I even agree that in a debate about keeping or aborting a baby, the father has a right to have a say as well.

            But her comment was about a way to prevent unwanted pregnancies that I thought was a bit contrived. I can see how you think my comment was rude, given the congressman remark, but if she does have an idea about it, I suggest she seriously take action for it, because finding a way to prevent unwanted pregnancies is a great goal to strive for.

            But I’ll leave now since you read my comments so poorly. You are a blog that isn’t afraid to say what you want, but you apparently don’t like others doing the same.

            Liked by 1 person

          • I don’t mind people saying things. Just don’t go after a commenter. That is pretty simple right? Or do I need to clarify? Readers here are free to browse without fear of being bashed randomly. If I read your comment “poorly” it is due to you writing it poorly, as you already acknowledged. Other than that one comment, I have no issue with you. -OM

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          • Um im not debating anything, you said something and I reponded. And just because your a single mother doesn’t mean you automatically have medicaid. And if we can find ways to fund abortion clinics, im sure we can find ways to fund birth control instead.

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          • Oh no worries, i have went up against way worse, when it comes to the pro choice groupies. Thank you for coming to my defense though, it was very appreciated. ; )

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        • What about the millions of dollars spent on housing unwanted babies and children. Also the lone teen who has a baby to care for ends up being a ward of the state. Who pays gorgeous that? Or an illegal abortion attempt that puts all involved in the hospital? $?

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  67. amen……in going their own way…..these women start claiming ownership of a body and life that belongs to God. I just don’t think it is possible to justify abortion in the face of God.

    Liked by 2 people

  68. I completely agree! Everyone seems hung up on a woman’s right to choose, but what about the baby’s (yes I said baby, not fetus) right to live? The heart starts to beat at 21 days after conception, brain waves have been measured as early as 6 weeks. I once saw that the definition of death is cessation of brain waves, so yes, abortion does kill!

    Liked by 2 people

  69. You know something that is even worse…..about seven percent of abortion babies survive. I feel like crying right now. The pure thought of me surviving and having to grow up knowing that my mother tried to kill me pains my heart. In some cases the baby is born with birth defects.

    Liked by 2 people

  70. I have never understood the double legal standard regarding abortion in the US. It’s legal for a woman to abort a “fetus” because it is not a human being. However, if a man accidentally kills a pregnant woman in, say, a car accident, he is charged with two cases of homicide.

    Why? Either a “fetus” is not a human being, in which case there is only once case of homicide, or a “fetus” is a human being, in which case a woman who aborts is guilt of murder.

    It seems that lawyers CAN have it both ways.

    Liked by 4 people

  71. I agree. There are a lot of people who claim they only have rights, among them the right to kill. But who are they to supress the right to live of the unborn child?

    Liked by 4 people

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